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« Odpowiedz #990 dnia: Czerwca 11, 2012, 10:42:43 am »

Najlepiej niech jedni i drudzy nie kombinują już co zrobią "jak będzie rozłam", tylko spokojnie czekają na kapitułę...modląc się by do niego nie doszło... a tu widzę w tej Warszawie ostra jazda... jedni deliberują o "nieważności święceń" któregoś z Xięży  i chcą już robić kaplicę "sede", drudzy zamierzają przed "sede" uciekać do "postindultu", kompletna paranoja jakaś ...a "dyć ten niedźwiedź jeszcze dyszy i po lesie biega" ...
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« Odpowiedz #991 dnia: Czerwca 11, 2012, 10:56:29 am »

bo sedecy się uaktywnili w Radości oraz zwolennicy x.Trytka(wzywający do wyjazdów do Krakowa). Ale to margines na szczęście.
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to the power and the glory raise your glasses high

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« Odpowiedz #992 dnia: Czerwca 11, 2012, 11:33:03 am »

Rozmawiałem z paroma wiernymi z Radości, którzy zadeklarowali, że jeśli nie daj Boże, biskupi FSSPX zadeklarowali by sedevantyzm to już nie będą przyjeżdżać  do Przeoratu, tylko przeniosą się do św. Klemensa. A są to długoletni ,,bywalcy" na Gancarskiej.

A co zrobiliby ci wierni, gdyby - piszę to hipotetycznie, bo nie znam aktualnych sojuszy - umowę odrzuciłyby polskie przeoraty ? Przecież w sytuacji opieki duchowej nad nimi nic by się nie zmieniło. Kapłani zaś nie zgłupieliby z dnia na dzień.

Nie żyjmy plotkami, nie twórzmy ich. Porozumienie lub jego brak nie powinno rzutować na nasz stosunek do modernizmu. Korzystajmy z posługi księży, co do których jesteśmy pewni.
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« Odpowiedz #993 dnia: Czerwca 11, 2012, 11:39:12 am »

Akurat ci z którymi rozmawiałem przeszliby do św. Klemensa pod opiekę o. Krzysztofa. Oczywiście mam nadzieję, że wszystko dobrze się skończy. To tyle mojego udziału w tym wątku.
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« Odpowiedz #994 dnia: Czerwca 11, 2012, 11:56:12 am »

Bardzo ważne kazanie Bp.Tissier de Mallerais :

"For the record: the Trinity Sunday sermon of Bishop Tissier de Mallerais
The UK district of the SSPX has just uploaded the following English translation of Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais' Trinity Sunday sermon in St. Nicolas du Chardonnet. (Link to original SSPX UK post.)

The passages that are apposite to the reconciliation between the Holy See and the SSPX are underlined.

    Bishop Bernard Tissier de Mallerais’ sermon, preached at St Nicolas du Chardonnet, Paris on June 3rd, 2012 :


    “All power has been given to me in heaven and earth, go ye therefore and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.”


    Here is the mission of the Church and the mission of the Society of St. Pius X and the Faith which we have by the power of Jesus Christ, by the power of Christ the King, Christ the priest, which supports us in our mission. We have fought for Christ the Priest, for the priesthood and for his priests, for the Church and for Christ the King, that is for a Catholic State. And we shall continue the fight, dear faithful, as did the saints of the first centuries of the Church, confronted with heresy, which undermined the Catholic Faith, just like today. There is a comparison to be made between the Arian errors against the Blessed Trinity and the heresies of today against the priesthood and the reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ.


    I'll start this comparison simply by describing three heresies of Antiquity which were defeated by the saints and by the priests.


    Firstly, Arianism. Arius was a priest of Alexandra in Egypt who denied a dogma of the Catholic Faith, saying, “No! The Word of God, the Son, is not equal to God, He is not God. The Word of God is a creature.” He quotes St. Paul, saying he is the first born of all creatures. St. Paul did write that, Jesus Christ is the first born of all creation, that is in God's plan, God saw him in the first place in His creation, in God's plan He saw His Son incarnate.


    Arius said no, it is not worthy for God to take flesh ; I have found a new doctrine, the Word is not God. Anyway, a council was called, a real council, the council of Nicea to condemn Arius and to declare that the Word of God is equal to God, that the Word of God is consubstantial with the Father and we profess this every Sunday in the Creed : “consubstantialem Patri.”


    The Word, God the Son, is consubstantial with the Father, they are one substance, one God. And it was a philosophical term which wasn't in the Bible and the Fathers of the Council hesitated to use this term which was philosophical and which came from the pagans and which could mean all sorts of strange things; like for example that God the Father and God the Son are two masks of one person. So, in God there would be one person who in turn takes up the mask of “God the Father” and then “God the Son.”


    Even St. Athanasius had difficulty adopting this term “consubstantial” but in the end he used it and St Athanasius used the council of Nicea to fight against Arianism and he suffered for it. He was exiled; he took refuge in the desert etc, because of his Faith in the Blessed Trinity, for defending the absolute equality of the Father and the Son, for defending the divinity of the Word of God.


    And that's how we must fight, dear faithful, as St Athanasius fought mercilessly against the Arians. And to a large extent St. Athanasius was successful in his fight against Arianism. So, let us not stop fighting in this struggle which in my opinion will last another twenty years. The crisis which we're going through at the moment is very serious, thus a crisis which will last a long time. The history of the Church shows us that all the long crises of the Church lasted 70 years, Arianism, the Great Schism etc.


    So the conciliar crisis will probably last around 70 years ; that means another 30 years to wait. Let's not expect a quick victory. We will have it, because Our Lord has given all power to his Church, of which we are a part.


    The second heresy which arose afterwards was the Nestorian heresy. Nestorius, bishop, Patriarch of Constantinople, declared that the Word didn't become Flesh, as I mentioned earlier.“It's a scandal,” he said, “that God should have assumed human flesh,” that is, the body of Jesus. It's a scandal for God is pure spirit, and he can't assume a body. This goes against the philosophy of the time and I, Nestorius, have thought of something else, I think that Jesus - the man Jesus - by his merits deserved the divinity.”


    So, because Jesus “became” God, then He is God. If Jesus is God, surely Nestorius professed the Catholic Faith, didn't he? But how did he profess it? Jesus is God but it wasn't God who became man but rather a man who became God. The man Jesus became God. Is that Catholic? That the man Jesus became God? No, it's heretical.


    And that is unfortunately what a professor in Ratisbonne was teaching in his classes thirty years ago [an oblique reference to Fr. Ratzinger, the present pope, who while he was a professor openly taught heresy], saying that Jesus so left himself, so went out of himself, that by his charity he united himself to the ONE, that is to God.


    That is a heresy; a heresy which is very similar to the Nestorian heresy. So let us be very careful, dear faithful, to profess the Catholic Faith as we should. It's not enough to say that Jesus is God we must say that God is incarnate. God was made man by the mystery of the Incarnation. And there have been saints, for example, St. Cyril of Alexandria who fought for that. Because he said, if Jesus is not God, if he was a man, then the Blessed Virgin gave birth to a man. So she isn't the Mother of God. Holy Mary, Mother of God pray for us! No, Mary is the mother of the man Jesus Christ.


    Ah! Heresy! An insult to our Lady! How can we deny her divine motherhood? St. Cyril and the council of Ephesus protested, saying that the Blessed Virgin is the Mother of God. She gave birth to God, the Man-God, Jesus Christ. If she gave birth to the Man-God then she is the mother of God. Her child is God, God the Son.


    Here we have a saint who did not hesitate to refute heresies and for this he was persecuted and nonetheless refuted heresy and explained the Catholic Faith. Just as we must do today, dear faithful, refuting religious liberty and explaining the Catholic Faith. Religious liberty wants us to respect all those who profess religious error, that the State should give freedom to error and all false religions to profess error in the name of the dignity of man. And we say, no! Jesus Christ must reign. He must reign in hearts and he must reign publicly in the State. The State must be Catholic.


    So we must refute these errors of the false dignity of man and religious liberty, that the State must respect the freedom of all, which is impossible and false and still false today. Instead we must affirm the opposite - that Jesus has the right to reign publicly in the State. That's what we're going to carry on doing following the example of St. Cyril of Alexandria. And let us not think that because Rome is offering us today an agreement, an official position in the Church, that we should give up proclaiming these strong truths which contradict the council. We must not stop  fighting against the council and its errors.


    The third example which I'd like to give you is of the pneumatomachians. After the council of Ephesus, people came saying the Holy Ghost is not God - the third great heresy. God the Father, yes; God the Son, yes, but not God the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is a creature and the proof is that Jesus sent Him. “The Paraclete, the spirit of truth which I shall send you from my Father.” If Jesus sends anyone, it's a creature. That's the pneumatomachians.


    Dear faithful, is it true that the Holy Ghost isn't God? I hope you are ready, ready to profess your faith that the Holy Ghost is God, like the Father and the Son. When you make the sign of the cross it is in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, and all three are God. “In the name of - there is only one name - the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.” - One God in three persons. The Holy Ghost is God. Anyway, St. Basil of Caesarea in Pontus arose and protested against this error saying no! the Holy Ghost is truly God. We must adore the Holy Ghost in the same way we adore the Father and the Son. He fought against those who professed error and triumphed.


    When the crisis started to come to an end, after twenty or thirty years, St. Basil considered that the heretics were beginning to convert. If only we could say that the Conciliarists are beginning to convert - but that's simply not true, not one, neither in Rome nor in the dioceses, none of them are converting. Anyway, St. Basil seeing that the pneumatomachians, as they were called, were beginning to convert and were returning to the Catholic faith decided not to shock them; he couldn't say the Holy Ghost is God because they wouldn't have hesitated to say that. So, he used a gentler expression. That is to say, the Holy Ghost is to be “adored with the Father and the Son.” He receives the same glory as the Father and the Son. We have to adore the Holy Ghost like the Father and the Son and we give the same glory to the Holy Ghost as to the Father and the Son. A “gentler expression” but which expresses the Catholic Faith. Unambiguous.


    If we have to adore the Holy Ghost it's because he's God; if we have to give the same glory to the Holy Ghost as to the Father and the Son it's because he is God. So, St. Basil didn't use ambiguous expressions with those who wanted to return to the Church. He demanded that they profess the entire Catholic Faith but using a gentler way of saying it. He was prudent, very good, but only in professing the true faith. He was not willing to sign ambiguous texts, dear faithful. That's what we must do today. We must refuse ambiguous texts, continue to condemn error and to correctly profess the Catholic Faith. When the Conciliarists come back, one day, in twenty five years, repenting of the council, when they see the ongoing catastrophes, the empty seminaries, the churches in ruins, apostasy everywhere, immorality everywhere, then they will repent deeply. When they do, when they begin to come back, full of repentance we can use “gentle” expressions to help them. But not now! The crisis is in full swing, now we have to be firm and condemn the errors of the council, especially the denial of Christ the King, the refusal of Christ the King.


    That, dear faithful, is our plan of action. There's no point in deceiving ourselves, there's no way the crisis is almost over, the crisis is far from being over, the fight is going to last a long time and so we need to get organised, to last out and to continue to profess the whole Catholic Faith in full confidence in the power of Our Lord Jesus Christ.


    All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me, go ye therefore into the whole world, preach the truth, preach the Blessed Trinity, preach Christ the King, preach Christ the Priest, have likewise confidence in my divine Mother who has all graces, who distributes all graces, it's through her that I will triumph over my enemies, it's through her that I will bring the Catholic Faith back to my Church. 


    Have confidence in my Mother, Immaculate Virgin in her Faith, may the Blessed Mother keep our Faith immaculate."

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/06/for-record-trinity-sunday-sermon-of.html

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« Odpowiedz #995 dnia: Czerwca 11, 2012, 18:00:03 pm »

Czyli rozumiem, że podtrzymuje stanowisko bp. Fellay'a.
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« Odpowiedz #996 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 08:30:38 am »

Czyli rozumiem, że podtrzymuje stanowisko bp. Fellay'a.

(...)  "That, dear faithful, is our plan of action. There's no point in deceiving ourselves, there's no way the crisis is almost over, the crisis is far from being over, the fight is going to last a long time and so we need to get organised, to last out and to continue to profess the whole Catholic Faith in full confidence in the power of Our Lord Jesus Christ."
(...)

Jeśli takie jest stanowisko Biskupa Superiora to się cieszę ...
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« Odpowiedz #997 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 08:48:30 am »

Cytuj
Nie ma sensu  oszukiwać samych siebie, pod żadnym względem nie można twierdzić, że kryzys dobiega końca, kryzys jest daleki od zakończenia, walka będzie trwać długo i tak musimy się zorganizować, aby to przetrzymać i nadal wyznawać całą wiarę katolicką w pełnej ufności w moc naszego Pana Jezusa Chrystusa.

 ;D

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« Odpowiedz #998 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 08:54:33 am »

Watpi ktos w to? Naprawde pan uwaza, ze "stanowisko bp. Fellay'a" to cos przeciwnego? zaprzestanie walki z kryzysem i porzucenie wiary katolickiej?

Ja widze z jednej strony twierdzenie, ze cel jest niezmienny, ale moga do niego prowadzic rozne srodki, w tym regularyzacja kanoniczna, a z drugiej strony jakies magiczne przesady, ze podpis pod papierkiem ma tajmniczy wplyw na wiare podpisujacego. Przeciez nawet wsrod indultowcow sa ludzie bardziej "lefebrystyczni" od niektorych lefebrystow, i to pomimo faktu, ze ich istytuty maja papierek z pieczatka od cwierc wieku, a ich wspolbracia i przelozeni. Ba, nawet wsrod ksiezy diecezjalnych.

W Rzymie nastapil przelom : juz nie wymaga sie "uzanania soboru" jako pierwszego i czesto jedynego kryterium przynaleznosci do Kosciola. W takiej sytuacji wszelkie rozwiazania kanoniczne naleza do domeny czysto prudencjalnej i wytaczanie dzial dogmatycznych do strzelanie do muchy z armaty. i ocieranie sie o smiesznosc. Bo wlasnie ta sedecka i indultowa "zyczliwosc" jest smieszna.
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« Odpowiedz #999 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 09:04:17 am »

Przecież napisałem wyraźnie, że się cieszę, jeśli tak jest. Czy wątpię ? Mam sporo wątpliwości .. cóż...
Co do upartego trzymania się cudzysłowu "życzliwości" przykład analizy z "drugiej strony" barykady :
"For the record - Fr. de Tanoüarn: what now?

From the Metablog kept by Father Guillaume de Tanoüarn, the very outspoken and very restless former member of the Society of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX) who became one of the founders of the Institute of the Good Shepherd (IBP). We post this translation here for the ongoing record of opinions.

     [T]his interview [granted by Bp. Fellay to DICI] is not anymore about preparing the faithful to imagine the possibility of an eventuality... We have entered the concrete [level], and, without playing Madame Irma [a fictional fortune teller], I see there the sign of an imminent signature. When it arrives, what will happen? The three other bishops of the SSPX have made their deep opposition known. Above all, they have made it publicly, and collegially. Perhaps they will swallow their mitres and change their position? It is more likely that they leave the Society. At the very least, they will make known (also publicly and collegially) that the agreement does not obligate them - and a fraction of the clergy will follow their lead. They will undoubtedly need a new receiving structure, a kind of "SSPX-the historical arm" [FSSPX-canal historique, a reference to the Corsican separatist group FLNC Canal Historique]. Soon afterwards, the matter of the replacement of the missing bishops will be considered in Menzingen. [...] Dear readers, we will thus witness very soon a seismic jolt in the Traditionalist world, with aftershocks and counter-aftershocks, internal and external, in the upcoming weeks and months.


Father de Tanoüarn is naturally quite mistaken about at least one important point: the three bishops of the Society who are not in governing positions made their collegial opposition clear in their April letter, but it was private correspondence, not a public pronouncement. But, up to this moment, there has not been a public and collegial statement by the three bishops."

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/06/for-record-fr-de-tanouarn-what-now.html
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« Odpowiedz #1000 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 09:24:48 am »

Dodam jeszcze takiego news'a....:
http://www.riposte-catholique.fr/summorum-pontificum-blog/informations/mgrs-williamson-tissier-de-mallerais-et-de-galarreta-sappretent-a-publier-une-declaration-lors-de-lannonce-de-laccord-avec-rome#.T9brn5hbJJE
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« Odpowiedz #1001 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 09:29:55 am »

To ja a propos:

Wykładowca:
- Opowiem wam teraz anegdotę, którą opowiadam prawie wszystkim grupom. Otóż w czasach PRL, wiecie, ścisła cenzura, w pewnej wsi koncert chciał dać zespół o pięknej nazwie "Prze***ane". Niestety, źle by to wyglądało na plakatach, więc sprytny sołtys tejże wsi postanowił zmienić nazwę na "Nie Jest Dobrze". Historyjka kończy się happy endem, zespół się zgodził, koncert był udany. A teraz przechodzimy do głównego powodu, dla którego to słyszycie. Moi drodzy, sprawdziłam wasze prace.
Nie jest dobrze
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« Odpowiedz #1002 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 09:37:34 am »

To ja a propos:

Wykładowca:
- Opowiem wam teraz anegdotę, którą opowiadam prawie wszystkim grupom. Otóż w czasach PRL, wiecie, ścisła cenzura, w pewnej wsi koncert chciał dać zespół o pięknej nazwie "Prze***ane". Niestety, źle by to wyglądało na plakatach, więc sprytny sołtys tejże wsi postanowił zmienić nazwę na "Nie Jest Dobrze". Historyjka kończy się happy endem, zespół się zgodził, koncert był udany. A teraz przechodzimy do głównego powodu, dla którego to słyszycie. Moi drodzy, sprawdziłam wasze prace.
Nie jest dobrze


Pytają żydzi rabina : "Rebe, powiedz jak oceniasz obecną sytuację ?" , a rabin na to : "Jest dobrze"... żydzi : "a mógłby to Rebe rozwinąć ?"
a rabin na to : "nie jest dobrze"...;)
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« Odpowiedz #1003 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 09:43:31 am »

Ks. de Tanouarn spokojnie lapie sie na cudzyslow, podbnie jak ostatnie "newsy" z Riposte Catholique i inni indultowcy. W ich zyczliwosc wobec Bractwa jestem sklonny uwierzyc tak samo jak w zyczliwosc bpa Sanborna i innych z setek obediencji sedeckich.
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to the power and the glory raise your glasses high

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« Odpowiedz #1004 dnia: Czerwca 12, 2012, 09:54:05 am »

A co Pan by zrobił w tej sprawie ?
Czy porozumienie 1 z 4 biskupów z BXVI będzie sukcesem i dla kogo ?
Jak Pan przewiduje podział wśród duchownych i szeregowych wiernych ?
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