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Forum Krzyż  |  Disputatio  |  Poczekalnia  |  Wątek: Herezya Chrześcijaństwa heretyków (protestantyzmu y prawosławia)
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Autor Wątek: Herezya Chrześcijaństwa heretyków (protestantyzmu y prawosławia)  (Przeczytany 763 razy)
Hugues de Payns
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« dnia: Maj 31, 2020, 18:38:18 pm »

Poniższą treść proszę sobie przetłómaczyć (tłómaczenie mniey więcey, zaznaczać y kopiować całe części textu) tu https://translate.google.pl/?hl=pl#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=pl

Proszę o wyrozumiałość, iż poniższy text iest w ięzyku w którym iest.



I. On August 15, 2019, I sent mr. Mark Pivarunas disguised as a bishop a message on his heresy (shorter, this one is supplemented) and so far I have not received any reply from him.


II. On September 15, 2019, I sent two men disguised as priests from the "CMRI" list ( http://www.cmri.org/traditional-latin-mass-directory.shtml ) a message sent to mr. Mark Pivarunas disguised as a bishop with a request for an intervention in this matter.

- One of them answered that he forwarded my message to mr. Mark Pivarunas disguised as a bishop,

- and the other, among others "Bp Pivarunas has a lot charges so he cannot answer to all requests at any time but he will try his best to do so.", "There are too many writtings at the same time." and "I am confused.". Finally (October 6, 2019) he wrote

"First of all we are Catholics. Christian has been created to confuse people by the modernist dialectics. Therefore we are not to be assimilated equal with other religions.",

to my question "I do not understand. Do you think that protestants are Christians or not ?" and the excerpt from the Larger Catechism of St. Cardinal Bellarmin regarding the question "What do we do the Sign of the Holy Cross for ?" and the answer to it (this is in the following message) he hath not replied anything so far.


III. On September 29, 2019, I sent almost all men disguised as priests (who have an email address) from the "CMRI" list ( http://www.cmri.org/traditional-latin-mass-directory.shtml ) and a man disguised as priest who is simultaneously in "SGG" and "MHT" (I also sent him my supplement on October 28, 2019, but unfortunately I have not received any reply from him so far) a message sent to mr. Mark Pivarunas disguised as a bishop (I sent my further supplements to some men disguised as priests) with a request for an intervention in this matter.

- One man disguised as priest replied among others that I am right.

- A second man disguised as priest wrote back "Bishop Pivarunas is using common language, he is very down to earth.".

- And the third man disguised as priest doggedly defended this heresy and mr. Mark Pivarunas disguised as a bishop, among others, citing the heretical "Canon 1325 §2" referred to in the following message and 2 understandings of the word "a Christian": 1. in the broader sense 2. in the exact and full sense referred to in the following message. He also wrote "You have not presented "the teaching of the Catholic Church" but an error.".

He wrote about the evolution of the definition of the words Christianity, Christians and a Christian (this evolution is mentioned in the following message).

In reference to one of quotations from the following message he also wrote "Pope Pius XII. Has never called validly baptised orthodox or protestant people as non-Christians! You must not pick out one part of Church's teaching ignoring or at least not sufficiently respecting the entire teaching!" (I will not even comment on it), etc.

He wrote that he disagrees with the author of this article (Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D.) https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m013rpProtestantsChristians.html

""Marian T. Horvat, Ph.D." is not at all a "CMRI priest" ! Is he generally a priest ? (I do not know if he had understood one issue with a "CMRI" priest because I wrote him that one Priest of CMRI wrote that I am right therefore he wrote about a priest - my footnote) I do not agree with his explanation in the specific question we do discuss here - he is making the same mistake as you did not distinguishing between a partly changed content of the term "Christian" during the centuries."

I am under the impression that all heavy guns have been brought, or at least most.


IV. One author of a page claiming to be sedevacantist wrote that one can call heretics "Christians" in conventional language.

He relied on the dubious credibility of the Apostolic Letter of Pope Pius IX Iam vos Omnes (about which in the following message). In addition, on October 22, 2019, he wrote "Yes, the Eastern Orthodox are referred to as Christians during the Crusades against the Muslims. I'll have to look up the sources, but there's no problem in it under certain circumstances. That's the point you seem to reject. If you like, I'll give you many more examples later when I have more time.". I wrote back "Alright I will wait for other examples." and so far I have not received none more example.





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« Odpowiedz #1 dnia: Maj 31, 2020, 18:46:28 pm »

The heresy of Christianity of heretics (protestantism and orthodoxy)
by mr. Pivarunas ("CMRI") disguised as a bishop




It probably hath started with this article https://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/m013rpProtestantsChristians.html


The article of mr. Pivarunas disguised as a bishop  http://www.cmri.org/97prog4.htm

"In this ecumenical age, when the modern hierarchy “bends over backwards” to seek a false unity amongst all religions (Christian and non-Christian alike), all are lovingly received and recognized. Isn’t it ironic that any and all religions are accepted by the Church of Vatican II as long as they are not traditional Roman Catholic ?"


Neither protestantism nor orthodoxy is Christianity.

Allocution of Pope Pius XII to Irish pilgrims from 8 October 1957. "Discorso di sua santita Pio PP. XII al pellegrinaggio nazionale d'Irlandaia nel III centenario di luca wadding":
"To be Christian one must be Roman; one must recognize the oneness of Christ's Church, that is governed by one successor of the Prince of the Apostles, who is the Bishop of Rome, Christ's Vicar on earth."

https://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/speeches/1957/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19571008_pellegrinaggio-irlanda.html


Vatican Council (1870) - Session IV, the Dogmatic Constitution PASTOR AETERNUS, Rome 18/07/1870.

"(...) When the Bishop of Rome speaks ex cathedra, that is, when exercising the office of shepherd and teacher of ALL CHRISTIANS, (...)"

Calling heretics Christians is consistent with the heresy of modernists, of sect 1958 (also present in the excerpt of the antidogmatic anticonstitution "Lumen gentium" of "Second Vatican Council") saying that the Church of Christ subsists (instead of "is") in the Catholic Church, i.e. that besides the Catholic Church there are also other churches (e.g. protestant and orthodox) belonging to the Church of Christ - it is a real devilry. (Chapter I, the whole second paragraph from the end) http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html



Saint John Chrysostom, Father of the Church and Doctor of the Church, Bishop

- so-called Polish

"Nic tak nie gubi Chrześcijan jak to, że tych za Chrześcijan uważają, którzy się za takich przedstawiają. Jeśli to niezawodna, że są fałszywi chrześcijanie, to albo on jest fałszywym Chrześcijaninem albo ty. Jeśli nie ty, to on; jeśli ty, to nie on. Jeśli on, to po co go masz za Chrześcijanina, skoro wiadomo: że chrześcijaninem nie jest, kogo Bóg za swego syna nie uznaje. Jakże ty masz go za brata ?".

ultramontes.pl/Chryzostom_1.htm


- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

"Nothing loses Christians as this that they consider those as Christians who present themselves Christians to be such. If it is reliable that there are false Christians, then either he is a false Christian or you. If not you, then he; if you, then not he. If he, then why do you consider him as a Christian, since it is known: that he is not a Christian, whom God does not recognize as His son. How so do you consider him as a brother ?"


To translate the so-called Polish contents (if you want) use a translator (translation more or less)  https://translate.google.pl/?hl=pl#view=home&op=translate&sl=pl&tl=en


In reference to the Encyclical of Pope Pius XI Mortalium Animos

There are not Christian Churches outside the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church is the Christian Church (only and exclusively).

http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19280106_mortalium-animos.html

point 6 "... they understand a visible Church as nothing else than a Federation, composed of various communities of Christians, even though they adhere to different doctrines, which may even be incompatible one with another." - the Pope writes that in their understanding point 7 "7. And here it seems opportune to expound and to refute a certain false opinion, on which this whole question, as well as that complex movement by which non-Catholics seek to bring about the union of the Christian churches depends." - The Pope means here that from the perspective and in the understanding of non-Catholics, that they claim that there are other Christian Churches outside the Catholic Church as modernists now think of protestants and orthodoxes as Christians and pray for unity with them. The Pope could not mean that, for example, protestants are Christians because it would be a heresy and this is impossible.


In reference to the Apostolic Letter of Pope Pius IX Iam vos Omnes

https://novusordowatch.org/pius9-iam-vos-omnes/

"We therefore address this Our Letter to all Christians separated from Us, (...)"

Maybe it is about Christians who were them in the past and "seperated from Us" and "all Christians separated from Us" in the past are not Christians.

Or maybe it lacks a word "former" before "Christians" or instead of a word "Christians" (or words "Christians separated from Us") there is a word "the baptized" like in the so-called Polish translation of the Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X (Warszawa 1908, "Imprimatur" from 1906) regarding the definition of heretics about which below. I do not have a reliable source of this Apostolic Letter.


I see no obstacles in my two above interpretations despite that the Pope writes to heretics.
The Pope thus calling heretics ("Christians separated from Us") draws attention here that they were Christians and they can be them again if they give up their heresies and return to the Church of Christ.
This diplomacy of the Pope probably aimed to facilitate the conversion of heretics.
It seems to me that hard terms are not very encouraging for conversion.



In reference to the Catechism of Cardinal Gasparri

Page 63 of the Catechism and 46 on the bar
https://archive.org/details/GasparriTheCatholicCatechism1932/page/n45

III. Catechism for adults, Chapter I, the Sign of the Cross

One can not understand points (2) and (3) separately. The indissolubility of point (2) with point (3) is indicated by footnote 32 in point (2), so I see no heresy here, but it is vaguely described and can be used by enemies of the Catholic Church or by lost persons. There is no such thing as 2 understandings of the word "a Christian":
1. in the broader sense
2. in the exact and full sense

Moreover, the condition of the infallibility of Bishops (Cardinals and the other Clergy too) is remaining in the unity of the Creed with the Pope.


Page 106 and 107 of the Catechism and 68 on the bar, question (159)

Hypothetically, if heretics are Christians in the broader sense according to the misinterpretation of the above definition of the word "a Christian" from this Catechism then why in the definition of heretics there is no mention that they are Christians as it is in the so-called Polish translation of the Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X (Warsaw 1908, "Imprimatur" from 1906) in which are at least 3 heresies regarding the infallibility of the Pope, the definition of heretics and the definition of usury, about which below.


I still would like to mention that in the so-called Polish translation of the Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X (Warszawa 1908, "Imprimatur" from 1906) are at least 3 heresies regarding the infallibility of the Pope, the definition of heretics and the definition of usury.
Larger Catechism, please use this program to open and view these types of files https://windjview.sourceforge.io/
http://www.ultramontes.pl/sw_pius_x_katechizmy.htm


Page 50 (83 on the bar)

- so-called Polish

"P. Kiedy Papież jest nieomylny ?
O. Papież jest nieomylny wtedy tylko, kiedy jako Pasterz i Nauczyciel wszystkich chrześcijan, z mocy najwyższego apostolskiego urzędu swojego, orzeka jakąś naukę, tyczącą się wiary i obyczajów, której cały Kościół trzymać się powinien."

- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

Q. When is the Pope infallible ?
A. The Pope is infallible then only, when as the Shepherd and Teacher of all Christians, he defines, by virtue of his supreme apostolic office, a teaching regarding faith and morals which the whole Church should adhere to.

As we know, not "then only", this is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church.


Infallibility of the Pope in ordinary and solemn Magisterium.

Encyclical of Pope Pius XII "Humani Generis" (1950)

w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html

"20. Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: "He who heareth you, heareth me";[3] and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians."

"[3] Luke, X, 16"


Code of Canon Law 1917, Canon 1323

https://ia800900.us.archive.org/12/items/newcanonlaw00woywuoft/newcanonlaw00woywuoft.pdf

"1166. By Divine and Catholic faith must be believed all those truths contained in the written or traditional Word of God, and which are either in solemn judgment or by the ordinary and universal teaching authority, proposed to our belief by the Church, as Divinely revealed truths. (...) ( Canon 1323. )"

From "CMRI" website
cmri.org/96prog5.htm
cmri.org/primer.html

But there is no heresy in below so-called English translation of the Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X (page 31 and 30 on the bar, question 57)
https://archive.org/details/CatechismOfSaintPopePiuxXTheSt.PiusX/page/n29

"57 Q. When is the Pope infallible ?
A. The Pope is infallible when, as Pastor and Teacher of all Christians and in virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by all the Church."




Page 56 (86 on the bar)

- so-called Polish

"P. Kto to są heretycy czyli kacerze ?
O. Heretycy czyli kacerze są to chrześcijanie, którzy przeczą upornie jakiejś prawdzie, którą Bóg objawił a Kościół katolicki podaje za artykuł wiary - jakimi są aryanie, nestoryanie, rozmaite sekty protestanckie i inne."

- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

Q. Who are heretics this is cathers ? (a word "cathers" means an another term for heretics - my footnote)
A. Heretics this is cathers are Christians who obstinately deny some truth that God revealed and the Catholic Church gives for the article of faith - which are arians, nestorians, various protestant sects and other.

But there is no heresy in below so-called English translation of the Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X (page 35 and 34 on the bar, question 14)
https://archive.org/details/CatechismOfSaintPopePiuxXTheSt.PiusX/page/n33

"14 Q. Who are heretics ?
A. Heretics are those of the baptized who obstinately refuse to believe some truth revealed by God and taught as an article of faith by the Catholic Church; for example, the Arians, the Nestorians and the various sects of Protestants."


At the bottom of the page 106 (111 on the bar)

- so-called Polish

"P. Kiedy popełnia się lichwa ?
O. Popełnia się lichwa, kiedy kto, korzystając z trudnego położenia lub niewiadomości bliźniego, wymaga od niego wbrew prawu i słuszności wysokiego zysku od wypożyczonych mu pieniędzy.

- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

Q. When is usury committed?
A. Usury is committed when someone, taking advantage of a difficult situation or ignorance of a neighbor, requires from him against the law and the rightness of a high profit from lent him money.

As we know, this is contrary to God's Law the Gospel according to St. Luke [6:35] and with the teaching of the Catholic Church e.g. the Encyclical of Pope Benedict XIV Vix Pervenit because one can not lend at any interest even low (not only high profit as above heresy proclaims) and regardless of the financial status of the borrower.

But there is no heresy in below so-called English translation of the Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X (page 96 and 94 on the bar, question 11)
https://archive.org/details/CatechismOfSaintPopePiuxXTheSt.PiusX/page/n93

"11 Q. How is usury committed ?
A. Usury is committed by exacting, without just title, an unlawful interest for money lent, thus taking an unfair advantage of another's need or ignorance."


The argumentation also appears that "Christians" this is a common or conventional language.

The question arises - Does a heresy is a common or conventional language and that is why one can use it ?

It is probably possible that in this way one can justify professing many, if not most, or all heresies and create a new false religion. This is not serious. It is a real devilry.



Because protestants are not pagans therefore the Catholic Church hath called them heretics because they were validly baptized, and a heretic can not be a Christian because the Holy Baptism is inextricably linked to professing the True Faith, so protestants can not call themselves Christians because of the reception of the valid Holy Baptism. Why did the Catholic Church not leave the name "Christians" for them when the name "Catholics" appeared and just remained with the name "heretic" ? Why would the Catholic Church start to call heretics Christians and confirm them in error, thereby acting to their detriment for the Salvation of their souls ? It does not make sense.


The definition of the words "Christianity", "Christians", "a Christian" can not evolve because it is modernism.

« Ostatnia zmiana: Czerwiec 05, 2020, 19:06:15 pm wysłana przez Hugues de Payns » Zapisane
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« Odpowiedz #2 dnia: Maj 31, 2020, 18:47:24 pm »

Florence, Decree for the Armenians, A.D. 1439:

"Holy Baptism holds the first place among the Sacraments, for it is the door into the spiritual life, since by it we are made members of Christ and of His Body the Church. And, since by the first man death came upon all, unless we are born again of water and the Holy Spirit we cannot, as the Truth says, "enter the Kingdom of Heaven" (Jn iii,5)." 

Are protestants members of Christ and of His Body the Church ?


Benedict XV, Encycl. Ad beatissimi, Nov. I, 1914

"There is no need then, for qualifying words wherewith to signify one's profession of the Catholic faith ; it is quite sufficient for a person to say: "Christian is my name, Catholic my surname" (St. Pacian, Ep. i, P.L., xiii, 1055) ; a man has only to strive to be in reality what these names signify." (Acta Apostolicae Sedis, vi, 577.)"

And would Pope Benedict XV write that a man has only to strive to be also in protestantism if the word "Christian" would signify protestants as well ?

Can a protestant reading this Encyclical say: "That is great I am in this reality because I am a Christian." ?




Canon 87   

"64.  By baptism a person becomes a subject of the Church of Christ, with all the rights and duties of a Christian, unless as far as rights are concerned there is some obstacle impeding the bond of communion with the Church, or a censure inflicted by the Church. (Canon 87.)"

Do protestants fulfil a duty of professing the True Faith resulting from their baptismal vow ? 

Is there some obstacle impeding the bond of communion with the Church, or a censure inflicted by the Church for protestants ?

The Holy Baptism is inextricably linked to professing the True Faith, so protestants can not call themselves Christians because of the reception of the valid Holy Baptism.



Taking everything into consideratiion, it is impossible for the Code of Canon Law ("Canon 1325 §2") to call protestants and orthodoxes Christians, page 2724 on the bar.
https://ia600306.us.archive.org/1/items/1917CodeOfCanonLawCommentary/1917CodeOfCanonLawCommentary.pdf

"Canon 1325 §2" "defines three classes of Catholics who have suffered "shipwreck of the faith". The first class of heretics who, having been baptized, retain the name of Christians, but obstinately deny or doubt some of the truths that must be believed by divine or Catholic faith."


Unfortunately I could not find a link to the 1917 Code of Canon Law in so-called Polish. In so-called Italian it is possible that there is no link to the whole 1917 Code of Canon Law as in so-called Polish and its summary is difficult of access http://www.cdirittocanonico1917.it/index.htm

"Benvenuti nel sito Codice di Diritto Canonico 1917 in Italiano.
 
Il presente sito si pone come scopo il colmare la lacuna della rete riguardo al testo in italiano del Codice di Diritto Canonico del 1917. Il presente testo era disponibile, solo dopo accurate ricerche, come 5 file PDF scansionati, senza possibilità di selezionare e copiare il testo per relazioni, ricerche, tesi, studi, ecc.
Il lavoro di questo sito è stato elaborare i file in questione (trovabili alla pagina Testo Originale) con un programma OCR (Riconoscimento Ottico di Caratteri) e correggere gli errori relativi al riconoscimento che non è sempre perfetto.
Ci scusiamo per alcune correzioni non riuscite.
Il testo è disponibile direttamente online alla pagina Versione Online ed in PDF alla pagina Versione PDF.
 
Buona Consultazione."

It is interesting, isn't it ?


The original text is a summary of the Code of Canon Law of Cardinal Vincenzo la Puma http://www.cdirittocanonico1917.it/original.htm

"Il testo originale è il Sommario del Codice di Diritto Canonico del Card. Vincenzo la Puma."

About Cardinal Vincenzo la Puma one can read here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincenzo_Lapuma

The content of the summary of Canon 1325 one can find here http://www.cdirittocanonico1917.it/online.htm
http://www.cdirittocanonico1917.it/CIC1917ITA.PDF http://www.cdirittocanonico1917.it/originale/codex_03.pdf

"1325. I fedeli professeranno apertamente la fede quando il tacere è scandaloso. Un battezzato che dubita o nega con pertinacia una verità di fede, è eretico; se abbandona la fede, è apostata; se non ubbidisce al Papa o ricusa di comunicare con i membri soggetti alla Chiesa, è scismatico. Sono da evitarsi le dispute e conferenze specialmente pubbliche con gli acattolici senza permesso della S. Sede o ungendo, dell’Ordinario."


Interestingly, in this summary of Canon 1325 is nothing that heretics who, having been baptized, "retain the name of Christians".




There is no Italy since 10th century (962)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_in_the_Middle_Ages

These jewmasonic productions


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy_(Napoleonic)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Italy

have nothing to do with Italy, so with Kingdom of Italy.


To translate the so-called Italian contents (if you want) use a translator (translation more or less)  https://translate.google.pl/?hl=pl#view=home&op=translate&sl=it&tl=en


This so-called English translation of 1917 Code of Canon Law (Imprimatur from July 3, 1918) page 272 and 290 in pdf format https://archive.org/details/newcanonlaw00woywuoft/page/n4 (one can download it below in pdf format - download options) confirms the above.

About Fr. Stanislaus Woywod, OFM one can read here on non-Christian website https://hnp.org/who-we-are/our-friars/deceased-friars/stanislaus-woywod/

"PART IV. THE TEACHING AUTHORITY OF THE CHURCH.

1168.


(...) A baptized Christian, who calls himself a Christian, yet obstinately denies or calls into doubt any of the truths to be believed by Divine and Catholic faith, is a heretic; if he abandons the Christian faith altogether he is called an apostate; if, finally, he refuses to be subject to the Supreme Pontiff, or to have communication with the members of the Church subject to the Roman Pontiff, he is
a schismatic. (...) (Canon 1325.)"




If I translate correctly then this so-called French translation of 1917 Code of Canon Law (Imprimatur from June 19, 1922) page 359 and 387 on the bar http://www.theologica.fr/!_Droit_Canonique/CodedeDtCanonique_1917/codedudroitcanon%201917%20%20MODIFICATIONS.pdf confirms the above.

"PARTIE IV  DU MAGISTÈRE ECCLÉSUSTIQUE

IV. Confesser sa loi.


2. Le baptisé qui nie une vérité de foi catholique ou qui en doute obstinément est hérétique. L'hérésie requiert, de la part de l'intelligence, une erreur contre la foi catholique et, de la part de la volonté, le refus obstiné de soumettre son jugement à l'enseignment de l'Église. Le baptisé qui renonce totalement à la foi chrétienne est apostat'., s'il refuse de se soumettre au Pape ou de com- muniquer avec les fidèles soumis au Pape, il est schismatique. c. 1325, § 2."


If I translate correctly then in this so-called French translation of 1917 Code of Canon Law http://catho.org/9.php?d=bo0 there is no heresy. In canon 1325 §2 it is mentioned that anyone who after having received the Holy Baptism retains the name of Christian before he started obstinately denies some of the Truths of the Divine and Catholic Faith which must be believed, or in doubt.

"1325
p.2 Toute personne qui après avoir reçu le baptême et tout en conservant le nom de chrétien, nie opiniâtrement quelqu'une des vérités de la foi divine et catholique qui doivent être crues, ou en doute, est hérétique; si elle s'éloigne totalement de la foi chrétienne, elle est apostat; si enfin elle refuse de se soumettre au Souverain Pontife et de rester en communion avec les membres de l'Eglise qui lui sont soumis, elle est schismatique."

There are other websites that confirms the above
http://www.clerus.org/clerus/dati/2001-03/20-6/CIC17l3.html#_Toc509674674
https://laportelatine.org/bibliotheque/DroitCanon1917/livre_troisieme/cic1917_1322_1326.php


There is probably no France since August 9, 1830 (with breaks for the anti-French revolution, directorate and two Bonapartes when there was no France).


To translate the so-called French contents (if you want) use a translator (translation more or less)  https://translate.google.pl/?hl=pl#view=home&op=translate&sl=fr&tl=en


Maybe this code is heretical because it was wrong translated, just like the infallibility of the Pope, the definition of heretics and the definition of usury from heretically translated in this regard the so-called Polish translation of the Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X (Warsaw 1908, "Imprimatur" from 1906)

or

maybe this code is a fake.


"The Commentary on the new Code of Canon Law from 1917"

To the Canon 1262 (Separate seats for men and women in church)

To § 1. "Conformable to ancient discipline, it is desirable that the women should be separated from the men in church. The very division of the ancient basilica singled out the vestibule for the penitents; the catechumens were usually admitted to the rear of the nave; the faithful occupied the side aisles, the men on the right side of the entrance, the women on the left. (...) In this country it will, we fear, be difficult to carry out this "desire" of the Church, on account of our custom of family pews. (thus the phrase "in this country" means the state of Missouri or USA because this Commentary on the new Code of Canon Law was written by the fr. P. Chas. "Augustine, O.S.B., D.D. Professor of Canon Law", B. Herder Book Co. 17 South Broadway, St. Louis, Mo. and 68, Great Russell St., London, W. C. from 1921 with "Imprimatur" from 22 November 1920 by "Archiepiscopus of Sti. Ludovici (St. Louis)" Joannes J. Glennon, Printed in U. S. A., Original from University of Wisconsin, digitized by google, one can download this Commentary from
https://ia600306.us.archive.org/1/items/1917CodeOfCanonLawCommentary/1917CodeOfCanonLawCommentary.pdf

"In this country it will, we fear, be difficult to carry out this "desire" of the Church, on account of our custom of family pews." - maybe this excerpt from this commentary on the new Code of Canon Law is a fake like the "Canon 1325 §2". This as if a justification is unserious and ridiculous.

- my note)".     


Who of impersonating persons under Sedevacantist Priests have written anything about this who is a Christian and who is not ?


The following Catholic Catechisms confirm this all.


The Douay Catechism of 1649 by Henry Tuberville, D.D.

https://www.remnantnewspaper.com/The%20Douay%20Catechism%20of%201649.pdf
page 1  "CHAP. 1. What a Christian is: And of the Blessed Trinity."

"Q. 2. Whom understand you by a Christian ?

  A. Him that inwardly believes and outwardly professes the law of
       Christ."


protestants and orthodoxes do not fulfill these conditions.



The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church page 6 and 4 on the bar

https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details
- so-called Polish, page 6 and 6 on the bar http://www.ultramontes.pl/bellarmin_katechizm_mn.pdf
To translate the so-called Polish contents (if you want) use a translator (translation more or less)  https://translate.google.pl/?hl=pl#view=home&op=translate&sl=pl&tl=en

"Rozdział: O tym kim jest Chrześcijanin, i o Znaku Krzyża Świętego

Uczeń: Cóż to jest być Chrześcijaninem ?

Nauczyciel: Jest to wyznawać Wiarę i Prawo Chrystusa Pana."


- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

Chapter: About this who a Christian is, and about the Sign of the Holy Cross

Student: What is it to be a Christian ?

Teacher: It is to profess the Faith and the Law of Christ the Lord.


The Larger Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin, Bishop and Doctor of the Church

Unfortunately I could not find a link to this Catechism in so-called English. It is interesting, isn't it ?

Interestingly, on the "CMRI" website there are none of the Catholic Church Catechisms which I am writing here about that contain the definition of a Christian
https://miqcenter.com/collections/books/Catechisms

- so-called Polish, page 11 and 11 on the bar
http://www.ultramontes.pl/Katechizm_Bellarmina.pdf

"Rozdział II:  Wykład Znaku Krzyża Świętego

Uczeń: Na co czynimy Znak Krzyża Świętego ?

Nauczyciel: Najprzód, na okazanie iż jesteśmy Chrześcijanami to jest żołnierzami Najwyższego Wodza naszego Chrystusa: bo Znak Krzyża Świętego, jest jakby znamię lub barwa, i odróżnia żołnierzy Chrystusowych od wszystkich nieprzyjaciół Kościoła Świętego, to jest pogan, żydów, turków, i wszystkich kacerzów. (...)"


- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

Chapter II: The explanation of the Sign of the Holy Cross

Student: What do we do the Sign of the Holy Cross for ?
Teacher: First, to show that we are Christians this is the soldiers of the Supreme Commander of our Christ: because the Sign of the Holy Cross, is like a mark or color, and distinguishes the soldiers of Christ from all enemies of the Holy Church, this is pagans, jews, turks, and all the heretics. (...)




The Short Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X

Unfortunately I could not find a link to this Catechism in so-called English. It is interesting, isn't it ?

Interestingly, on the "CMRI" website there are none of the Catholic Church Catechisms which I am writing here about that contain the definition of a Christian
https://miqcenter.com/collections/books/Catechisms

- so-called Polish, page 5 and 12 on the bar
http://www.ultramontes.pl/sw_pius_x_katechizmy.htm

"Część Pierwsza: O głównych Prawdach Wiary

Rozdział I: O znaku Krzyża świętego.

P. Czy dość być ochrzczonym, aby być prawdziwym chrześcijaninem ?

O. Aby być prawdziwym chrześcijaninem, nie dość jest być ochrzczonym; potrzeba jeszcze wyznawać naukę i prawo Jezusa Chrystusa, należeć do Kościoła Jego, jakim jest Kościół święty katolicki i być posłusznym prawym Pasterzom tego Kościoła."


- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

Part One: About the main Truths of Faith

Chapter I: About the sign of the Holy Cross.
Q. Is it enough to be baptized to be a true Christian ?

A. To be a true Christian, it is not enough to be baptized; it is still necessary to profess the teaching and law of Jesus Christ, belong to His Church, which is the Holy Catholic Church, and obey the true Shepherds of that Church.



The Larger Catechism of Saint Pope Pius X, page 10 and 8 on the bar

https://archive.org/details/CatechismOfSaintPopePiuxXTheSt.PiusX/page/n7

"3 Q. Who is a true Christian ?
A. A true Christian is he who is baptized, who believes and professes the Christian Doctrine, and obeys the lawful pastors of the Church."


Saint John Chrysostom, Father of the Church and Doctor of the Church, Bishop

- so-called Polish

"Nic tak nie gubi Chrześcijan jak to, że tych za Chrześcijan uważają, którzy się za takich przedstawiają. Jeśli to niezawodna, że są fałszywi chrześcijanie, to albo on jest fałszywym Chrześcijaninem albo ty. Jeśli nie ty, to on; jeśli ty, to nie on. Jeśli on, to po co go masz za Chrześcijanina, skoro wiadomo: że chrześcijaninem nie jest, kogo Bóg za swego syna nie uznaje. Jakże ty masz go za brata ?".

www.ultramontes.pl/Chryzostom_1.htm


- so-called English, this is not English. The best proof of this is The Smaller Catechism of Saint Cardinal Robert Bellarmin Bishop and Doctor of the Church https://isidore.co/calibre#book_id=4363&panel=book_details , England hath not existed since December 11, 1688.

"Nothing loses Christians as this that they consider those as Christians who present themselves Christians to be such. If it is reliable that there are false Christians, then either he is a false Christian or you. If not you, then he; if you, then not he. If he, then why do you consider him as a Christian, since it is known: that he is not a Christian, whom God does not recognize as His son. How so do you consider him as a brother ?"


To translate the so-called Polish contents (if you want) use a translator (translation more or less)  https://translate.google.pl/?hl=pl#view=home&op=translate&sl=pl&tl=en


Below photos of the heresy of Christianity of heretics (protestantism and orthodoxy) by mr. Pivarunas ("CMRI") disguised as a bishop - just in case...

I do not know how to insert a photo from the disk. Please write an e-mail in a private message then the whole document with an evidential photo will be sent.

Nie wiem iak wstawić zdyęcie z dysku. Proszę napisać maila w prywatney wiadomości to cały dokument ze zdyęciem dowodowym zostanie wysłany.

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« Odpowiedz #3 dnia: Maj 31, 2020, 18:55:24 pm »

Po angielsku jeszcze jako tako rozumiem ale ten cerkiewno-słowiański w łacińskiej transkrypcji z mnóstwem zbitek samogłoskowych jest nie do zniesienia. Proszę coś z tym zrobić!
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« Odpowiedz #4 dnia: Maj 31, 2020, 19:30:11 pm »

O co chodzi, bo mi sie nie chce czytać
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« Odpowiedz #5 dnia: Maj 31, 2020, 21:40:23 pm »

Chyba o zaprezentowanie poglądu, według którego pojęcia "chrześcijaństwa" i "katolicyzmu" są tożsame, w związku z czym protestanci, prawosławni (i inni; np. jacyś nestorianie) nie są "również chrześcijanami", "błądzącymi chrześcijanami", "chrześcijanami, ale heretykami", tylko w ogóle nie są chrześcijanami. Semantyczny spór.
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Amen tako Bóg daj, byśmy wszyscy poszli w Raj.

ministrantura śpiewniki tradycja->
« Odpowiedz #6 dnia: Maj 31, 2020, 22:05:55 pm »

Nie widzę powodu by odnosić się do obcojęzycznej korespondencji nikomu nie służących sedewakantystycznych biskupów.
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Stare jest lepsze Ł5,39
liczne stare książki->http://chomikuj.pl/Pjetja
Z forum amerykańskich tradycjonalistów:
Oto zwyczajowe napomnienie: unikaj żarliwości; krytykuj zasady, nie ludzi.
Bądź rozróżniający, lecz nie czepialski. Bądź pouczający lecz nie zgryźliwy. Bądź zasadniczy, zamiast natarczywy.
Anna M
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« Odpowiedz #7 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2020, 00:37:39 am »

Nie widzę powodu by odnosić się do obcojęzycznej korespondencji nikomu nie służących sedewakantystycznych biskupów.

Dokładnie tak! Misz-masz jedna wielka kaszana - jak młodzi by powiedzieli.
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« Odpowiedz #8 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2020, 12:45:53 pm »

Też chciałem odnieść się do wpisu pana Hugues de itd, ale za lakoniczne to, za mało danych i odsyłaczy, takie zbyt zwięzłe. . . .
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« Odpowiedz #9 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2020, 13:49:48 pm »

Też chciałem odnieść się do wpisu pana Hugues de itd, ale za lakoniczne to, za mało danych i odsyłaczy, takie zbyt zwięzłe. . . .
Może jest taka mozliwośc, aby pan o złozonym niku wyjaśnił nam o co mu sie rozchodzi w kilku żołnierskich zdaniach, bo biez wodki nie razbieriosz na razie.
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ochrzczony

« Odpowiedz #10 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2020, 19:43:12 pm »

Dimond brothers ("MHFM"/vaticancatholic.com) coming to town.😏💯
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« Odpowiedz #11 dnia: Czerwiec 02, 2020, 13:30:52 pm »

Dimond brothers ("MHFM"/vaticancatholic.com) coming to town.😏💯

Prosze mnie nie łączyć z tymi heretykami, nie mam z nimi nic wspólnego. Wyznaią oni herezyę nieistnienia Chrztu Pragnienia y o ile dobrze pamiętam herezyę nieistnienia Duszy Kościoła. Nie wiem abo nie pamiętam o inszych ich dyabelstwach. Toć iest sekta y należy się od niey trzymać zdaleka. 

Ieźli "CMRI" to produkt żydomasoński to Dimond brothers to kontrolowana opozycya "CMRI" y nie wiem czyli iedno "CMRI".

żydomasoneria zapewniła y zapewnia różne możliwe wersye sytuacyi Apostazyi Czasów Ostatecznych, sekty, "sekty matki", "sekty córki", etc., wszytko to iey dyabelstwo.
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« Odpowiedz #12 dnia: Czerwiec 02, 2020, 14:35:03 pm »

Pan Hugo chyba sie dowiedział o sporze klasyków z romantykami i stara sie nas tym zainteresować. Paaaanie, kedy to było
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« Odpowiedz #13 dnia: Czerwiec 03, 2020, 16:45:06 pm »

Nie widzę powodu by odnosić się do obcojęzycznej korespondencji nikomu nie służących sedewakantystycznych biskupów.

Dokładnie tak! Misz-masz jedna wielka kaszana - jak młodzi by powiedzieli.

Zakaz publicznego nauczania Wiary Katolickiey przez niewiasty http://krzyz.nazwa.pl/forum/index.php/topic,10208.0.html .
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« Odpowiedz #14 dnia: Czerwiec 03, 2020, 17:27:11 pm »

Zakaz publicznego nauczania Wiary Katolickiey przez niewiasty http://krzyz.nazwa.pl/forum/index.php/topic,10208.0.html .

;D ;D ;D  czyli co? kobietom nie wolno się tu wypowiadać?
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Forum Krzyż  |  Disputatio  |  Poczekalnia  |  Wątek: Herezya Chrześcijaństwa heretyków (protestantyzmu y prawosławia) « poprzedni następny »
 

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